Screen Brief was fortunate to attend an exclusive press conference with James Gunn for the Season 2 Finale of ‘Peacemaker’ on HBO Max.
We were one of a few journalists in attendance, and asked James Gunn about that shocking cliffhanger ending, what it was like filming the finale, and what’s in store for the future of the DCU.
James Gunn on the shift in tone in this second Season
Host: The first season of Peacemaker ends with an alien invasion and a big battle. The second season ends with a more emotional confrontation. Why did you want to go that route for this season?
James Gunn: Well, I always thought the first season is about Peacemaker, and the second season is about Chris Smith. In the first season, Chris was dealing with the repercussions of his actions, but also the presence of his own trauma, a trauma that he had never seen, but was affecting all of his thoughts and decisions, and he just wasn’t aware of it. And by the end of season one, he becomes aware of this trauma.
In season two, he’s aware of his trauma and it actually makes his life a little bit harder. As anyone who’s done a bit of therapy knows, sometimes that can also make your life harder, at least temporarily. Because you’re dealing with all of this stuff in your life that you didn’t even know was there, and you’re doubting things about yourself that you never doubted. And this second season is about that internal journey of Christopher Smith. It was always about the way he relates to himself and the way he relates to the rest of the 11th Street kids from a perspective of the potential for healing.
How did you decide on the balance between action-driven and more character-driven scenes in Episode 8?
I’m just kind of following what the story is. We sort of had an action finale in Episode 7, but we also have huge action sequences in Episode 8. “Impception” is the biggest thing we’ve ever done on the show, from a visual effects perspective. We call it ‘Impception [LAUGHS] by the way, when the imps from the other dimension are attacking the ARGUS agents.
And the montage of ARGUS exploring all the doors is the longest action sequence we’ve ever done on any episode of Peacemaker. So, we really have the two biggest set pieces from the show in Episode 8.
But at the end of the day, the story really is about the people. So, we spent just as much time with the boat sequence. And for me, the real heart of the series takes place in that little hotel room seen with everyone talking to Chris.
On the other dimensions ARGUS discovers
How did you dream up those universes? How did you decide which doors you wanted them to go through?
Sometimes it’s because it’s part of the story. We hear in the first episode Auggie mentions there’s an imp dimension with giant peppermint sticks. So that’s why we see that, because I wanted to show it was a real place. But I also wanted to show that in a way that was a hellish dimension. It was one of the most fun things I ever did because it really does remind me a lot of the Hong Kong category three movies that I loved when I was younger. It’s able to blend this absolutely crazy stuff with true tragedy, like Clyde getting killed and the sadness of Harcourt and Fleury and the change in Fleury that leads to his ending.
In terms of all the other doors, it really was just a matter of creating a montage and what’s the most fun. Of course, there’s the important one [referring to Salvation].
Were there any other universes you dreamed up that you didn’t get a chance to include?
Yeah, I wanted them to open a door and see Deadpool in a room. And I talked to Ryan Reynolds about it [LAUGHS], but I think we would have had to go through some pretty big hoops to do that. [Ryan] wanted to do it!
Ah, that’s all anyone’s going to talk about now, is Deadpool. [Regretfully…] I should never have said it.
Did you consider peeking into the universe of [the Kyphotic Alien] who keeps walking out and incinerating rats?
I think that we could see that someday. But he’s just a janitor. He just works in some building [in his dimension], and the rats are very toxic, so you’re not supposed to burn them. So ,he goes to the quantum chamber and burns them there because they are toxic vermin.
His story is very mundane. He’s like the next-door neighbour from Home Improvement, there’s nothing special about that guy. He’s just this guy.
On the connected story of the DCU, including Salvation and Checkmate
This episode includes two major reveals, can you talk about the decision to bring the planet of Salvation, and the Checkmate agency, into the DCU.
Yeah, those are the two things that were always a part of this season.
Even before I sat down with the writer’s room at DC [Studios], I had sort of mapped out what I thought the general story was. And two important aspects of that were Checkmate and especially Salvation.
Those were things that I had pitched to everybody when, even before we came into DC. I pitched it to Mike DeLuca and Pam Abdy (the co-heads of Warner Bros. Pictures), to Casey Bloys (the head of HBO Max) and to David Zaslav (the head of WBD). Then after we came into DC Studios and met with the writes room, we kind of worked things out a little bit more. So that was always pretty instrumental in the overarching story that I’m telling in the DCU.
The other shows, like Lanterns, is very connected to all of that. It may not seem like it, but it is all very connected.
Can you talk about what about Salvation and Checkmate appealed to you as things to have as narrative engines for what you’re doing with DC?
I’ve always liked Checkmate. Those Greg Rucka Checkmate stories are just comics that I really, really love. So, I always wanted to build Checkmate into it somehow. And the idea of allowing Adebayo to really fulfil what is her sort of destiny and be the one who founds Checkmate in this universe was important too.
I also like the idea of using [Checkmate] to deal with all these different characters. For instance, I said on Threads the other day, when Auggie gives his speech at the end of Episode 7, some people judge very harshly, and other people think he’s a hero—I don’t know if he’s either of those things. I think he’s a good man and who is trying to fight in small ways but doesn’t think he can win anything bigger than that. I think that speaks directly to Harcourt especially but also Economos.
In comparison, for all of Peacemaker’s flaws, he’s always been brash and done, whatever he thought the right thing was. Harcourt and Economos on the other hand, they’re worker bees, they’ve work for intelligence organisations their whole lives and basically done what they’ve been told. They’ve broken out a couple of times, like at the end of The Suicide Squad, but basically they’re worker bees. And so, I think that Auggie was speaking directly to Harcourt’s soul at that moment.
That leads into this desire to create an organisation by using all of the ‘blood money’ truly for the good. An organisation that is going to be separate from the other institutions in the DCU, which is the government, corporations, the Justice Gang, and the typical meta-human gangs. It’s the real culmination of the 11th Street kids and their desire to be good.
Did you always know that Amanda Waller’s daughter would be the one that founded Checkmate?
I’ve known that for a long time. Even before I pitched it to Zaslav. don’t know if it was after season one or maybe it was during season one, but I’ve known for a long time that they go on to form Checkmate, at least if I had my plans.
What is it about the Salvation Run storyline that made you want to incorporate it your DCU storytelling?
It was really the concept. I like the concept of Rick Flag creating this prison that is absolutely inescapable, but it’s also a rash decision because ARGUS don’t realise from their initial tests that it’s a dangerous place. In the comics, and in our DCU, there are hints of it being dangerous.
But I also like the idea of being able to create this other environment where, people that are considered bad meta-humans are going to have to figure out a new way to create a society. That was what was always, interesting for me. I really liked the concept of it from the beginning when it first came out.
How much should the major DC comics fans be thinking about what actually happens in those books for what to expect in the DCU?
It really is about the concept. We’re taking elements like Salvation, but we’re not adapting that total story. For example, there’s a very distinct storyline in the comics that involves The Joker vs Lex Luthor, but we’re not doing that. The part that really spoke to me was the beginning of it where, in the comics Rick Flag Jr. and Amanda Waller were like, “meta-humans are a pain in the ass, they keep escaping, let’s just get rid of them permanently”. And they send them to the other place and of course there are a bunch of repercussions about sending a bunch of bad guys to another dimension. And in this case, the sole person there right now is a good guy who has to survive on this own [Peacemaker].
What do you envision Checkmate looking like in the DCU? Is it its own thing, or will it carry through Peacemaker and other projects?
You’ll definitely see Checkmate carrying through the DCU. They’re a thing now. They’re part of what’s going to happen. And I think they’re going to be really, really good at what they do. When we see them next, I think their circumstances will be a little bit different than the startup they are at now.
The existence of Checkmate has some major implications for Sasha Bordeaux, does this lead us any closer to Batman appearing in the DCU?
No. [LAUGHS] It’s really not about that. If you think about it, we’re kind of skipping over that part. It’s not about Sasha and Batman, it’s about Sasha and Checkmate. Frankly, I know Sasha mostly from Checkmate ,so that’s why she came into this story.
On the comic book inspirations for the DCU
Many of the comic book inspirations for the DCU have been from the 2000s era around Infinite and Final Crisis, with authors like Morrison and Rucka, including Checkmate, Salvation Run, Paradise Lost, the Brave and the Bold, and Birthright. Are there any other stories you hope to draw on soon?
Oh, absolutely. Yes. For sure. And some more modern ones too. We’re working on a couple things that are a little bit more, in the style of Supergirl, where it’s based on the book. So, there’s some of those things as well.
Supergirl is a direct adaption of the comic book. How many more direct adaptions should we expect in the DCU?
Only some, frankly. Not a ton, but some. For example, we’re taking elements like Salvation, but we’re not adapting that total story. We’re taking elements of that comic book series and putting it into our films, you know. So, you know, there is a lot of that happening, you know, there’s a lot of concepts, like Man of Tomorrow, I’m dealing with so many things that are from comics that are great, but I’m not adapting like a specific comic book story like Supergirl is.
On Rick Flag’s cooperation with Lex Luthor
With Rick Flag implementing Luthor’s plans to imprison metahumans, things are going well for Lex Luthor right now. What sort of threat will get him to work with Superman in Man of Tomorrow?
Oh, a pretty pronounced one. I think that Lex Luthor is mostly concerned about Lex Luthor, so we’ll see what threatens Lex Luthor.
Rick Flag Sr. seems to be in a position of power, but once you enter into any kind of deal with Lex Luthor, doesn’t he tend to be the one holding all of the cards?
Yes. [LAUGHS]. Rick is dumb. I love the character of Rick Flag, but he thinks he is way smarter than he is. And we see it continuously. He thinks can compete with Lex, and there’s just no way he’s going to be able to. It’s not going to be great for him.
Is there anything now that you wish was different about Rick Flag Sr in Creature Commandos after what has happened in Peacemaker and in Superman?
No, I think that was all a part of what this is. We saw a guy in Creature Commandos, who seems at first like he’s a good guy but he’s absolutely not. He screws up everything, again, because he thinks smarter than Waller—which he isn’t. And he messes that up, and he falls for this woman, and is played by her from the beginning.
That to me, is the fun thing about Rick Flag. He’s totally imperfect.
Is redemption possible for Rick Flag Sr?
Yes, for sure. I certainly don’t think Rick Flag Sr is evil, I really don’t. Whenever Frank Grillo talks about the character he’s always like “I don’t see him as a villain, I see him as being a little obsessive about revenge, but I don’t know, someone kills my son, I’m not sure I wouldn’t feel the same way”.
I have compassion for Rick Flag, I don’t think he’s allowing himself to see the whole truth. The worst thing about Rick Flag is that he’s focused on the guy he can do something about more easily, rather than focusing on Amanda Waller who would be more difficult to confront. Because Amanda Waller was the one that gave the order to kill Rick Flag Jr.
On the potential future of other Peacemaker characters
Can you reveal when we might see Keith in the future?
I think we’ve born a villain, but I do think the sort of story is about Salvation. That story is more planned out than anything to do with Keith.
I have plans for Keith, but I just haven’t figured out exactly how it’s all going to work out so I have to make sure I can do it. It’s hard with the interdimensional hopping stuff to make these things come together in the way I’d like. I have what I would like to happen with Keith but I’m not sure, I have to make sure it will work.
Why did you decide to have Joel Kinnaman reprise his role as Rick Flag Jr. on Earth X?
I knew that we were lucky enough to get Joel for one episode to come in and it’s Chris Smith’s show at the end of the day. It was about him having a confrontation with his own past there for a moment. And having to deal with it. So, it wasn’t really about Rick Flag Jr. in that moment.
We learn a bit more about Adrian’s older brother. How much can you share about him?
Well, his name is Gut Chase and was almost in this season. There are two characters that I have had in my back pocket that are big ideas in my head. One is Peacemaker’s mother, and the other is Gut Chase. Both of them almost appeared in this season, and I actually wrote scenes for Peacemaker’s Mom, but at the end of the day, you just don’t have as much landscape as you wan.
Gut Chase is a bit similar to Peacemaker but probably doesn’t have the heart that Peacemaker is hiding beneath all that.
On where Peacemaker’s story will continue in the DCU
When Chris landed on Salvation with just with the clothes on his back, where does that leave him?
The plan for Rick Flag is that Peacemaker is going to live for the rest of his life on Salvation. No one knows he’s there.
Since this season ends on a cliffhanger, are you already planning a third season for Peacemaker?
No. This is about the wider DCU and other stories in which this will play out right now. That doesn’t mean there won’t be a third season, never say never, but right now, no.
This is about the future of the DCU. And Peacemaker’s still an important character.
Does the conclusion of Season 2 set up a broader role for Peacemaker in the DCU moving forward?
Yes. He’s important. He’s really important to me. Peacemaker is an important character. I said from the beginning when I took on this job. It’s about really maintaining and re-positioning the big diamond properties that DC has, like Batman, Wonder Woman, and Superman. And then, it’s about creating diamond properties out of the smaller characters, like Peacemaker.
Will John Cena or any other Peacemaker stars be returning in Supergirl or Man of Tomorrow?
Well, we’ll have to see [LAUGHS]. That’s a secret.
How much is what happens at the end of Peacemaker going to affect whatever you might do with Creature Commandos?
Oh, it’s in there. That’s being written now, and we’ve got the first couple of episodes. So that’s part of it, yeah.
What is the status of the Waller series, and might Checkmate be involved in that?
Yeah. It’s been… It’s just been a rough road [LAUGHS], there’s a lot to say. It’s like, so, yeah, you know, sometimes things just happen and it’s like butter and it’s so easy and you’re getting great scripts and it’s just, you know, straight of the bat, and other times it’s just a rockier road. And as I said from the beginning, we’ll never greenlight something where the scripts aren’t working, and we just haven’t had that yet with the Waller show.
Do you anticipate Viola Davis appearing as Amanda Waller anytime soon in the DCU?
I would certainly hope so. Viola and I have a great relationship, I love her to death. I think she’s one of the greatest actors I’ve ever worked with so I would certainly hope so.
On the upcoming DCU projects for 2026 and 2027
You wrote the first three projects of the DCU, but now you’re handing the baton to other creators for Supergirl and Lanterns. How does it feel transitioning to a more producer and CEO role?
It’s challenging because my experience is being writer and director. I’ve produced some things, but it doesn’t feel like it comes as naturally to me. So that is just about trying to be the best producer I can. I’m focused on supporting those creators the best I can to help them tell good stories. I’m beholden to the story in those things as much as I am to the stories in my own stuff. So, my central concern is the same whether it’s a movie I’m directing or someone else is directing.
What will dictate which DCU projects you choose to direct yourself?
Well with Man of Tomorrow, it hat was an idea I had for a long time. So, I already know the next few projects I’m directing. [LAUGHS].
How do you know? Is just because you are the one steering that particular part of the story?
Yeah, because it’s a part of the plan for the DCU. There is one big story. On the one hand, everything is going to be ok to watch by itself, but there is still a bigger story that is being told that involves, for example Salvation. And that story involves Rick Flag, it involves Lex and Superman, so those movies I’m going to be directing.
That’s the plan right now, at least. I may get so tired that I can’t do it because I’m pretty tired, so we’ll see. But there’s a plan that I’m going to do. It’s a couple more at least.
On the thematic messages of Season 2 about self-reflection, mistakes and feeling broken
Do you feel like ‘Oh Lord’ serves as the thematic foundation for the story?
Yeah, it really is. At the end of the day, what we see is that it’s Harcourt’s favourite song. Foxy Shazam is kind of Harcourt’s band. So that’s an important part of it.
But the lyrics are so deeply moving. The song was written for the lead singer Eric Nally’s son, Julian. It’s about being sent out into the world and having a hard time. For Peacemaker, it’s about him having such a hard time. [Tearing up], I’m getting emotional thinking about it. It’s a really loving song, but it’s also a loving song about letting go of someone and letting them feel, letting them get their bruises.
One of the things about Chris in this season especially, is that the story is about having enormous empathy for people who have made terrible choices in their lives and are really trying to make good on them but feel like they don’t know how to get there.
Where does that impulse come from for you to focus on that kind of story?
Well, I mean, I could say that it’s about me, but I don’t really think it is. I think it’s about every single human being that’s not a f*cking narcissist. All of us are aware of all of the mistakes we’ve made in our lives, all the bad things we’ve done, the things we regret, the times we’ve hurt people. You can’t live a full life without hurting people, you know. And all the traumas that make us, that everybody has, that define us in ways that we aren’t aware of, or move us in directions where we do unhealthy things even when maybe we know they’re unhealthy, but we still do them
It’s really just part of being human. Chris Smith is just incredibly human. He is all of those things.
I also think Chris started out as a character who was the kind of guy that everybody calls ‘morally reprehensible’ online every day. For me, part of the show was always about that too. He’s a guy who has a lot of beliefs that are messy, and some of those have changed. But he was also particularly like progressive about some things from early on.
The fact we live in this world that everyone thinks the way to deal with people that think differently than you is to treat them like demons, what a f*cking stupid idea. If you want the world to be a better place, you don’t do it by telling somebody they’re evil, that’s not the way you do it, it makes you stupid. And Peacemaker is the kind of guy who says I lot of things that if I had met him at a party, I would have said, “who’s that f*cking asshole over there?” and I would have got in an argument with him. But I think that you see he is a good person. He is. He’s good.
Was it fun creating a balance between the deeply emotional moments Chris has meeting his family on Earth X, but also missing the red flags of that earth?
It’s fun. Chris is just a deeply flawed, wonderful human being. You know, [LAUGHS] despite the fact that he’s killed people and all this stuff. But you’ve got to take it outside of that because that these are fairytales in a way. But yeah, I really…
The stuff between him and Danielle in Episode 8 is to me, the core of who Peacemaker is and who he has been. He’s a mess, but he follows what really is the right thing. He’s a pretty wonderful person to those around him. By the end of this Season, he has turned into a person who lets his heart lead him as opposed to other things. He’s had a healing experience through this season.
Adebayo was such a standout and level-headed character in Season 2, what helped you realise she’s such an important part of this story?
I think from the beginning, Season 1 was about Adebayo and Peacemaker. Season 1 was about these two people that were totally different, but also similar in some ways because they somehow gel and had chemistry and fell in love with each other in a platonic way.
And we we see culminated in her speech to him in the Season 2 finale, where she tells him that he’s the only person that she knows loves her. He’s the only one she feels in her heart loves her. And that’s an important thing for their relationship and the way they’ve allowed each other to change.
And that’s importance because Adebayo comes into Season 2 seeming like she’s this delusional dreamer who’s trying to start up a security consulting business and ends up getting prostitution calls without even knowing it. But at the end of the day, her dreams are kind of what saves everyone. She leads them, and puts the guardrails on for these characters to be delivered from the mundane imprisonment of bureaucracy that they all live in.
How cathartic was it writing the scene in the hotel, when all the 11th Street Kids talk to Chris?
Yeah, it was moving. I cried a lot while I was writing it, and when I was filming it on the day because of Danielle’s incredibly performance. It speaks to me. What Adebayo says to Chris is what I feel about my father who has passed away. My father had a lot of things that were goofy and silly which he believed in, but at the end of the day, I knew he loved me. And I think until my very later adult life, he was the only person I knew loved me that was a human being and not a dog. And that is a special thing to be given by another human being. I think there’s people out there who feel loved by lots of people, and I think that’s great. I didn’t grow up feeling like that. I felt like just one person, who was also abusive and an alcoholic and a mess, loved me. And I think that’s the gift that Chris gets. I won’t go so far to say that Chris is based on my father, but he certainly has some of his attributes.
On the fun of filming Nelson and Foxy Shazam’s concerts
Did you always know the band and boat was going to be Nelson?
No. I really like that song and that album of Nelson’s. I think that people think of Nelson as like a pretty boy metal band from the 80s, you know, but they actually put out some pretty great melodic rock albums as they’ve matured. I wanted to use a band that would potentially be on a party cruise. So that one jumped out at me.
How much back and forth did you have with them to get them on the show?
They were excited immediately and were all into it. We had a great time with those guys and that was the best day I’ve ever had shooting anything. We shot Nelson, and Foxy Shazam was in the audience watching. Then we shot Foxy Shazam, and Nelson was in the audience watching. Nelson even came the day before when we filmed the opening of Episode 6 at the Diner. The guys from Nelson are really great, it was really fun.
Do you have a favourite day on set of Peacemaker Season 2, and what was special about that day?
I mean, that’s easy. Filming on the boat with Foxy Shazam and Nelson. That was the best day of all time that I’ve ever had on any set ever, for real. We had so much fun that day. I don’t know if you can see me, but all back there dancing to Foxy Shazam. I’m there, Steve Agree is there, Nelson is back there. We’re all back there, me and the PAs are there dancing. And Foxy Shazam are the greatest live band in the world, so it was just an incredible, an incredibly fun time that day.
On balancing individual stories with the connective tissue in the DCU
How do you balance wanting to tell a standalone season for Peacemaker, with also planting seeds for the DCU?
The balance, for me, is simply can people sit down and watch Peacemaker season two by itself, and be thoroughly entertained, and the answer is yes (maybe watching Peacemaker season one with it). So, that’s my only litmus test. Similarly, will people be able to go watch Man of Tomorrow without watching Peacemaker or even without watching Superman and be thoroughly entertained? That is the first thing that needs to exist. Then all the rest of it becomes gravy at that point.
How much will you integrate TV and movies in the DCU?
I want to make it so that you can watch anything by itself. I’m not expecting people to go into Man of Tomorrow and know what Salvation is. We will say it in the movie. You’ll find out anything you need to know about, such meta-human’s disappearing, through that movie.
It’s a very delicate balance when writing these things because I have to give the information to the audience. But simultaneous to that, it is not a mystery. We’re going to uncover stuff that we’ve already seen Peacemaker. So, you’ve got to be able to take the story in a way that people who already know the information are not going to be bored, and where people who don’t know the information will get the information in an easy and simple way.
But also, not to be burdened by stuff. You don’t want to make these things so complex, there needs to be an elegance to the storytelling that. Too many mumbo-jumbo things like magic stones that do this and that, there’s no emotional aspect to that. A prison in another dimension is easy for me to understand and say in one sentence.
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